Episode 18: Tech is Changing Financial Services: Data Needs to Stay Ahead of Advances

Intro: Welcome to InConfidence, the podcast for data ops leaders. In each episode, we asked thought leaders and futures to break down the topics and trends concerning it and data professionals today, and to give us their take on what the data landscape will look like tomorrow. Let’s join the data conversation. 

Tina: Hey, we’re back with another episode of InConfidence, the podcast for data ops leaders. Today we’re with Hannah Helen from the London Stock Exchange. Hannah is the Global Head of Technology Innovation. Welcome, Hannah. 

Hanna: Thank you, 

Tina: You know, your your role at London stock exchange group is frankly very inspiring to me. And I really love that we’re going to get to talk about the emerging technologies and the ways that you’re using data and technology for your your clients in developing like the future products of your company. But first, we’re going to get warmed up with three questions. They’re, they’re very challenging, so try not to get nervous. Okay.

Tina: What is your favorite episodic binge right now? Like, are you watching something on Netflix or HBO? 

Hanna: So it’s funny because I don’t see anything at the moment, which I’m very excited about, to be honest, but I love Curb Your Enthusiasm. So I’m kind of waiting, you know, the Larry David show. So for the for the next one to come up. I think it should be coming up maybe like maybe later on this year, even or beginning of next year. But he’s the you know, the creator of Seinfeld. So then he had his own show, which is very kind of like, it’s quite realistic. It’s kind of like hes the, kind of like main character. Kind of like, you know, playing himself. So it’s kind of it’s quite quite fun, fun show. And then I think another one which is slightly I think it’s a little bit embarrassing, to be honest to say this, but that you know, the old guy, 

Tina: Now, you got to say it.

Hanna: But antiques are the old the antiques roadshow. So that’s another one. So I’ve been people who know me. So I’ve been I’m very into antiques in in general. So I think there’s always this like balancing act that you kind of like do these, I don’t know, innovation, emerging tech roles. And then they go back to the kind of like, the old stuff, in a way. So that’s always like, it’s very cranny show, obviously. But it’s kind of fun to see that what what are the items that people are bringing? And what’s the value of them? So it’s I think it’s kind of fun, fun to watch. They have one I think in the US. And then one in the UK as well. I think both are very, very good. 

Tina: Whose antiques are better?

Hanna: Depends like I think you get to see quite an interesting one, like very old ones are people always like extremely surprised. You know, oh, I didn’t realize that. This is so expensive.

Tina: Okay, but yeah, I mean, to us ones are like, if it’s 100 years old. Oh my god, it’s Oh, yeah. If it’s like 500 years old, they’re like, oh, it’s all the faster. 

Hanna: Exactly, exactly.

Hanna: Absolutely. Nobody’s fun. If like, you should definitely watch it. 

Tina: I’ve seen a few episodes. And I just love like, when they find something that’s so it’s like everyone’s dream, right? The thing that was vastly

Tina: Unexpected. Yeah, pleasure in seeing people find the treasures that are already in their closets. Hanna: Yes, totally. Totally. Okay, 

Tina: so next difficult question. What are you reading? 

Hanna: So I have like, an extra that I’ve come prepared for this, but like any my show what I’m doing at the moment? Yes, absolutely. But it’s kind of like it’s interesting one because I think I’m finding myself like I don’t know if it’s like using too much mobile phone these days. So I think it’s important to kind of like calm yourself down in a way and then kind of like take your mobile phone away and then just like, you know, concentrate on reading. So I actually do exactly it’s kind of like just very very relaxing and I think I kind of read whatever like I have to go back to favorite bookstores so they one on upper east side called I think its called the Corner Store, you know somewhere up in there I think it’s like close to nineties on upper east side. Really good good books, and whatever they are recommending so then I’m always like Okay, I will go for that. And then they in the UK so in London, they books which is also amazing bookstore and they have quite a few different locations. So they have like one and like Marleybone rave straight, write it down. Exactly. Marleybone high street, I think they have one in the CD few other places. But also they are like, you know picking always very interesting books. That’s basically it employees, which will be kind of like giving the ranking of different books and recommendations. But anyway, so the current one, which I’ve actually just started reading is this Vanderbilt.

Hanna: You know, saga basically, which was written by Anderson Cooper and Catherine Hall. So this should be quite interesting one, I just started reading it. And it’s basically obviously about Vanderbilt, how they, how they got where they were, like, obviously extremely wealthy. And then how they lost all their money in the in the end, but I think it’s very, very interesting one. And then actually, this is kind of like, so I tend to kind of like mix up like I have, like always like, I guess depending on the mood, I always kind of pick different books, like I have a couple of different ones in my back. And this is like, I tend to like to pick like the classic ones. So Charles Dickens, A Tale of Two Cities. Quite interesting one as well, like, it feels like I was just looking at it like this was this was written, when was it written Obviously a very, very old one. So 1859. And it still feels kind of, you know, it doesn’t feel that that Oh, like there are some similarities to the to today’s date. So those are the two ones that I currently are underway. And then I mix them up based on the mood. 

Tina: Yeah, I like to have a section. Yes. Usually sci fi, and then something nonfiction. And then occasionally I’ll have a third like, you know, self help, or currently, it’s aquaponics. 

Hanna: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Tina: Because, you know, I’m becoming a prepper.

Tina: I want to know, like, how am I going to raise my, my own food? You know, because when the supply chain breaks, I’m going to need to figure out,

Hanna: okay, I have to I have to start looking into backup. Well, that’s a really good call.  Oh, my gosh, yeah, no, I know. And I started thinking.

Tina: Very interesting. Anyway, so that’s a little glimpse into our very similar reading approaches, which is really cool. Because a lot of people only read one book at a time, but I’m like you, I need to, like this book for each mood and each situation. Like the one next to my bed. It can’t be too interesting. Like, it has to be just, you know, a little bit tedious. So that I can

Hanna: totally, yeah,

Tina: Otherwise, I will binge read it all night. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Tina: Okay, last one. Do you have a you have to answer? Yes. Okay. You can’t say “no, I don’t have” a guilty pleasure junk food. Otherwise, I’ll have a complex all day.

Hanna: And I think he’s gonna have a again, it depends on the on the mood, I think, like I was thinking like, what would be like, for example, like, I don’t know, it’s not junk food. But you know, like, got your Cacio de pepe, like the Italian pasta dish. Very obviously heavy, like obviously, lots of cheese, you know, and pepper and you know, stuff like that. But I think I like like, very, I think that’s a really good one. I don’t know, then kind of like, I don’t know, Mexican food or Chinese food or, like, whatever the mood is, but I kind of feel like that’s what I what I go for. it’s a tricky question, because I don’t like I don’t like junk food. Like, it’s again, like, what is that term these days? Right. Like, I don’t know. Like, though they’re not really a chunk borders. Like he can be like, Mexican can be light as well. You know, so and very healthy. You know, with your avocado. 

Tina: So last night, I had my friends 95th birthday dinner at my house. And while it wasn’t junk food, it was definitely guilty. Pleasure. Oh, yeah. Carbs were involved in Yeah, it was all out. indulgent. Yeah.

Hanna: Nice celebration. 

Tina: So let’s talk about you and your role.  And maybe a little bit about your career path, how you got to where you are, and where you see your interests and skills, taking the London Stock Exchange and, you know, the promise of technology overall. So, could you tell us a little bit about

Tina: How your current role you’re the Global Head of Technology Innovation for the London Stock Exchange group. Could you tell us a little bit about what that role? What your group does? And and then maybe we can talk about what are the emerging technologies you’re looking at? 

Hanna: Absolutely. And I think it’s this kind of interesting one, because it’s fairly newly created roles, I think I’ve been in the position for, I guess, a little bit over over a year now. And it was kind of I created on the back of the merger between London stock exchange group and, and refinitiv. So in my current role, I am reporting to our CTO with the mandate to they’re kind of like three different aspects that we are looking at within this scope. So first of all, is really understanding this whole, like very rapidly evolving emerging technology market. So I think we have seen throughout the years past couple of years that, you know, in the past, like all these changes were happening, I don’t know, maybe every other year, every three years, they were these these new themes coming to the market. But now the change is so much more rapid. So that’s really what we’re looking at in this this position that, how do we make sure that we have kind of enough visibility into these larger kind of market moving themes, things like, you know, public cloud, obviously, I don’t, I don’t see it as emerging anymore. But obviously, there’s lots of things happening with public cloud AI machine learning,

Hanna: with Blockchain or DLT, new things like I would say, edge computing, you know, quantum computing. And then also there is obviously very active discussion in the market happening about things like Metaverse, and augmented reality and where those kind of experiences might be might be going next. So I think that that was quite quite interesting, as we always look at, for example, future of work and where people will be working going forward. The second key part in this goal, and what our team does is really ecosystem engagements. So what we do is when we look at those themes, we then link those themes back to various different market players, whether they could be you know, big tech firms, obviously, you know, AWS, Microsoft, Google, Alibaba, cloud, all of all of those of the of the world. And then also, you know, smaller startup companies, I’ve always said, there’s lots of innovation coming, coming within the startup space. And then we also work closely with different, you know, venture capital firms, we also have academic engagement, so kind of like more sort of forward looking, you know, research, we collaborate with them as well. And then key thing in in this role has as well to kind of like drive different side by side validation. So really kind of like understanding those capabilities better, like oftentimes, like, I don’t think there are a lot of new releases coming from the market, and it’s maybe hard to like, read between the lines that you know, where exactly the company would be really, really playing. So we then cooperate with our core teams to understand that, which are really the key use cases that we are looking to resolve, and then kind of by going back to the market, then figuring out that, you know, which are the players in that space, and kind of comparing them based on our our use case.

Hanna: And then lastly, I think that the key part of this role has also been the wider I would say technology innovation program, where we have a large global technology organization, that we are always like, you know, they’re very much part of this, this innovation journey. And there’s a lot of elements there, where we want to make sure that, you know, technologies that work for us, they can really get access to those, you know, cutting edge tools and, you know, get the education and understanding of these new market themes. Like it’s very, you know, key point that it’s not anymore, there’s kind of like, I guess, innovation team that is working on the side doing their own little innovation initiative, but really kind of like collaborating with the core team to make sure that they are also, you know, part of the journey.

Hanna: But that’s in a in a in a nutshell. So it’s kind of lots of different elements and very obviously focused on emerging technologies in general as well. 

Tina: So, technology is so such a broad field and like you said that the changes and advances are happening at such a rapid pace, even just in the last 10 years. It feels rapid. I mean, you know, like Cloud has been there for a while but you know, broad adoption in the compute power in the cloud, that, of course, has changed quite a bit recently. But, um, you know, for how do you decide, you know, what, what is the first gate? Or is it maybe the second gate? Like, how do you filter out the noise from the promises? 

Hanna: Yeah, I think you kind of like need to look at it in two different ways. So we tend to be quite market and customer focused with our approach. So when it will get these like new emerging technologies, we have really kind of a collaborating with our customers to understand that how serious they are about those specific trends. So I think that’s one of the key points of when we make the course that, you know, when is the right time to kind of like, seriously go after, you know, specific topics. And then it also like the, you know, internal demand as well. So we what we want to make sure is that whatever initiatives or emerging technologies, we are looking, we are collaborating with our business stakeholders to make sure that we are aligned back to the use cases that they are really looking looking to resolve. And in some cases, like, I think, where the overall market screening is so important, is that, you know, you can embrace innovation growth, like you’re going back to the like, almost like understanding the market, you know, what are the key players, and then starting to understand when is the right time to go after those within the financial services? Because obviously, like maybe some other markets might be moving early on to those directions. And then it, for example, makes sense for our kind of organization or financial markets and still waiting for the for those specific things to happen. So again, things like for example, Metaverse, like I think there have been quite a few, you know, market releases happening about it, especially I would say, in the customer services space. But then I think that wider adoption, it’s still waiting for itself. And it’s kind of like, you know, interesting to see what will be happening in that space? 

Tina: Well, I mean, let’s take the example of Metaverse, which obviously, is getting so much buzz right now, so much interest and its own conferences, but we knew our you know, when you look at Metaverse,

Tina: you know, how do you research it? And how do you see beyond the, like, the initial use case of customer service? Or, you know, virtual conferences? or stuff like that? How was it that your you and your team are valued? Are there certain criteria that you have, you know, along with your internal stakeholders that you say, if it does or doesn’t do these three things, then it’s either in or out like those, those are the, you know, the must haves?

Hanna: Yeah, I think for for that kind of theme. So we tend to do like we kind of start with almost like a desktop research. So really understanding that, you know, obviously, you know, using various different sources to bring together, one view, which is very obviously, you know, focused on our business, and then that external validation is really, really important for us. So having those meetings with that kind of identifying who are the ecosystem players in this space, what exactly they are doing, and what kind of use cases they are resolving. So I think that kind of like end to end, we coming up with that, and then almost presenting that back to the, you know, key stakeholders on our side, and, and figuring out that, is it the right time to go after that specific topic? And what are those, you know, different use cases, essentially, that we would be looking at that would be kind of like moving the needle for our business, or making it I guess, making the approach easier, even for our, you know, internal employees in some cases, because obviously, we are looking at both the customer facing solutions as well as the, you know, internally facing capabilities. So it’s kind of like the the lens can be quite wide in in these cases. But that’s kind of like I think how we have been really approaching it and I think it again, it comes back to the those key customer conversation as well to understand that they are kind of like looking at it in a very similar way that having the conversation below like you know, this is an interesting team happening in the market. Are you going going after it and then you get start getting very much kind of understanding that what is the right time to start thinking about it?

Tina: I’m really interested because you’re your customers as well as your internal organization. I mean, we’re talking global, right?

Hanna: yes, yes, exactly. And that’s a good point. Because it’s a it’s a really good point, because I think I’m actually I’m based in New York and one of the key get quick questions I’m keep getting is that oh, like, have you traveled over from London? Yesterday, if I did give our name, obviously, with the London Stock Exchange probe, like it points to London, even though we are very much a global company, and now in the US, and Europe and Asia, and Middle East and Africa, and so forth. So, you know, it’s, it’s a good good point, actually, as you’re pointing there. 

Tina: Well, one thing that comes to mind is that

Tina: when you are working with and for people and companies from various geographies, regions, you know, with data regulations, becoming more and more prevalent, and more and more specific. How do you reconcile all those differences?

Tina: You know, while you’re evaluating and assessing the promise of these emerging technologies, is there something that you know, do you put that, you know, gate up right, right away? Or does that come later? Because there, there are ways to, you know, mitigate those risks. 

Hanna: Yeah. And I think with those conversations, so we work with our take quite a wide range of different teams, internally, to validate those aspects. And I think we needed like, the key themes for us would be our risk management team, which is looking at these kind of discussions end to end for us, and obviously, being very, you know, a highly regulated organization. So we have very thorough risk management practices in place and looking at like whether

Tina:  we experienced that this morning.

Hanna: That is true. Absolutely. Getting back to the system. Right. So yeah, it brings brings it all on challenges, I would say. The other one, which I you know, would like to call out if our, you know, cyber team. So we call operates a cyber security team, shall I say, but we collaborate very closely together with them as well to start forcing that, you know, what are different aspects that we need to look at when we look at this, this new emerging technologies, but those are the two key parts of organization that we call operate with us as well. So it’s very, very thorough validation that we need to do when we start looking at very seriously, some of these emerging technologies. 

Tina: Sounds rigorous, very rigorous.

Hanna: Exactly, exactly. But we’re used to it. So I think it’s kind of like, they are good practices in place to go for it. So it’s not all negative, you know?

Tina: No, no, I mean, and, look, that’s the state of the world. So that’s a thing. It seems like a competitive advantage, actually, now that I think about it, that you have a process, you have a methodology. You have these, you know, these teams, they know their part, and what they’re looking for. And then yeah, so being able to do the risk and compliance and security checks is actually a competitive advantage compared to, you know, organizations that have to invent the wheel or reinvent the wheel every single time. 

Hanna: Right. Right. Yeah, I’ll come new to it, they’ll come new to the whole regulatory environment, it can be very challenging, right? Yes. Yeah, exactly. 

Tina: Yeah, at this point, it’s, it’s so new and changing all the time, very difficult to get a grasp on. So having those processes and resources is critical. Sounds to me, if you’re planning on reaching a global audience, and you have a global organization. Can we talk about how your team is focused on delivering solutions and products that are compliant, flexible and can scale at you know, like, we just discussed the scope of what you do? Can we talk about how you, you’re doing that for your businesses worldwide? And how do you balance the functionality with the regulatory compliance requirements for instance,

Hanna: it’s interesting one, so obviously, as I mentioned, we have gone through the merger with with refinitiv. Now gone near a couple of years ago, actually now. And as a part of that, like we have now obviously, the global customer base. So when you look at the solutions that We offer into the market,

Hanna: lots of data analytics, you know, different flexible, flexible delivery methods that we offer for them. So you look at like all the large banks, asset managers, hedge funds, all of them will be using, you know, all our solutions. And it really comes back to this at what we have seen in the market, you know, past couple of years is that how customer consumption, and obviously, data and analytics consumption has evolved over time. So I think it’s really all about flexible delivery, we obviously have things like, you know, briefing, the workspace, which is basically like a desktop application where our customers can look at the data in different formats, consume news, or look at charts, for example. But then, increasingly, our clients will want to get the data analytics as API’s or data feeds, and then want to consume them in those different environments that they are using, whether it’s on-prem environment, or you know, public cloud environments, or whether they use the whole range of them. And then, you know, I’ve kind of like increasingly obviously, looking at other, you know, capabilities as well, I’m thinking, snowflake, or no data breaks, or these kind of like little bit economic new organizations that have, they’re coming to the market past couple a couple of years. So for us, like having been in this business for a long time. So it comes back to that, you know, flexibility and meeting our customers in those different environments. And I think your point about how do you do it in kind of, like secure way, that’s kind of like the baseline like we function from that perspective that we need to make sure that as we deliver that content for our customers, again, these kind of like risk and with regulatory controls, and, you know, cybersecurity and to kind of like secure sharing of the data. That’s extremely important. And that’s kind of like the foundational baseline for us as an organization to be able to work together with those financial institutions. But it is interesting ecosystem. And again, like it’s fast evolving, so we need to make sure that we continue delivering to those defendant environments or even even the new again, Metaverse, who knows, maybe that will be the next big thing after a couple of years. So we need to be able to deliver our content and analytics there as well, you know, yeah, like the next couple will be Yeah, exactly. 

Tina: You need to be there. 

Hanna: Right. Yeah, exactly. And it was interesting. There was actually like, I was looking at the news article earlier today, where there was a point saying that Microsoft Teams is now more widely used than email, which I think is really, really interesting point, as well, of how this whole like, even either email, I was thinking that people will stay low, obviously sent part of, you know, notes on a daily basis. But then now it’s a more that kind of like the instant chatting that people are doing, I think, which is really make it speed speedy. 

Tina: And you know, that is a very interesting statistic. Yeah, we’re a very large company, we’re very slack, heavy users. Are those you know, quick messages, sometimes not so quick message.

Hanna: Exactly. How do you find yourself? Do you find yourself kind of using that more than email? 

Tina: Definitely. Email more, obviously, for external and for summarizing, you know, kind of important communications. But slack forever. I mean, literally everything internal all the time. Yeah. Almost everything is on Slack. Well,

Hanna: exactly. 

Tina: Yeah. Before the zoom, you’re on Slack. After those zoom, you’re on Slack. Yeah, it’s very interesting. But you had mentioned that future work is also part of your remit. And I was just, it just made me think about how quickly our community communication practices have changed, and how we’re now using completely different tools, like teams and slack and zoom. Whereas just two years ago, it was probably more email heavy. 

Hanna: That’s how you roll. 

Tina: Yeah, yeah. Gee, just it just took a global pandemic to make, you know, old habits. I know.

Hanna: That’s true.

Tina: Hopefully, we won’t need a global pandemic to have the next version of future work. I know. Yeah, exactly. 

Hanna: Exactly. 

Tina: So you mentioned you know, the Europe with your customers are, you know, they’ve gone from preferring dashboards and charts, you know, for consuming information. And now they’re,

Tina: you know, starting to adopt API’s to consume the same information, bring it right into their own environments. Are there other trends that you’re seeing in your work that are emerging? 

Hanna: Yeah, I think I keep coming back to like, I think the overall like the, you know, public cloud is like that, just like, I think foundationally I think changing the market overall. And I think what, it’s kind of interesting to see that evolution that how many of the customer studies first week, kind of like one cloud provider and testing it out couple of years ago, and then now how they are moving into the multi cloud environments, and kind of like, I think many, many clients also kind of like scratching their head. How exactly to do that in practice, like, it’s not an easy thing, you know, from an engineering perspective, to figure out that, how do you take your organization to the next level, and even again, like talent, profile, and, you know, learning of all of those different environments, it can be very, very challenging. But I think that whole kind of like, almost like a foundation that, you know, public cloud providers have been able to create, and then on top of that, the ecosystem of different, you know, mortgage providers that have been able to then, you know, create the capabilities and like, on top of that public cloud environment. So I think that’s really obviously continues to be a very interesting trend. And I think I’m always very excited to see that what are the new capabilities that are coming from the startup ecosystem, because this obviously, trend has enabled them to move even faster, as well. So there are lots of different interfaces that are, you know, evolving. And then I think, overall, the, you know, cloud, like, I think the sort of like requirement for, I guess, faster, and better analytics to certain extent. So I think the faster point like how edge computing, like bringing the data closer to that client, how that will be able being, you know, data and analytics access, and then the conversations which have already started about quantum computing, like how do you then process these large data sets faster by leveraging, you know, computing power? That’s also I think, something again, like we are still, you know, again, the market is evolving. So it’s not quite quite there yet. But it’s it’s also another aspect that is interesting to follow that, you know, how fast the financial services market will evolve in the quantum computing space, as well. And then I think, overall, obviously, like there have been a lot of conversations recently about kind of ethical AI. And I think, kind of linking back to even data ethics as well. So I think that overall conversation has been something that I think the reason you’re born

Hanna: regulation as well has been driving, I kind of like making sure that people start thinking about those those aspects as well. So that’s something that I think we see as we go into next year, that’s going to be continued for ust, as well. Those are probably the key was right. 

Tina: I mean, more often than not, I think it seems that organizations are doing data and analytics in the cloud, in the environment of increasing regulation, which require requires them to architect this capability very differently than before regulations existed. So I mean, is that how is is that part of what you work with your clients on and your internal stakeholders to and, you know, what are some of the things that you’re doing to mitigate that? 

Hanna: Yeah, I think that’s definitely I think, one key aspect, I think it also comes back to that kind of like change, like kind of like focus change for our clients, because I think, like, where the conversation started, was really around like cloud data and storage, obviously. And then you know, where that where the conversation there is that how do you make sure that you, you know, reinvented a secure way for your organization? And then again, coming back to the client delivery, how do you do it secure way? Thinking about that, again, cybersecurity and regulatory controls there as well. I think another really interesting angle there is the

Hanna: Those rapidly changing into user requirements as well. Because then when you start thinking about, like, we obviously, you know, serve a lot of different data scientists, as well with with our data. And it comes back to the individual preferences as well. What are the different, you know, capabilities that they want to use? In they they work? Do they want to use Sage maker or BigQuery? Or, you know, whatever else like there’s, again, a wide range of range of solutions and solutions in the data science space that they will be using. So in order to then kind of like, how do you make sure that you are part of those workflows, and, you know, they can easily consume the content there as well. So that’s how I think another key part, I think, it’s just like, interesting to see how the world has evolved from that cloud storage perspective, back to this more kind of like analytics focus, in essence,

Tina: It is changing rapidly. To your point earlier, it’s like, how do you keep up with all these changes in the available technology? And then where it’s going, and which is why they have you?

Hanna: Exactly, exactly. And I think is the key like, I think what is funny to see, actually, how would the role of like, even architecture, how that is changing? Like, it’s kind of like becoming the key role in the technology space, but how do you create those architectures where you can then easily, you know, move from one provider to another, and as the you know, capabilities will continue evolving, that you are not kind of like, stuck with one in a way. So that’s, that’s really, I think, important as well. 

Tina: Yes. Choice, flexibility and choice. 

Hanna: Yes, exactly. And we’re almost at the end of our time, but before you go, I would love to hear your words of wisdom for our listeners, what would be the takeaway you want them to have from this conversation? 

Hanna: So I think one takeaway that we have kind of talked about here is that kind of like, rapid change that we’re seeing all the time. So I think it’s like just overall that don’t get settled as an organization, or individually, I think there are so many opportunities to kind of take your, you know, internal workflow, or even organization more widely to the next level with these these rapid rapid changes, and really leveraging and developing them based on your, you know, needs. And then I think on top of that, like I think, again, sort of education, I think is a key. So staying educated, like what are the latest things that are happening, there’s so much information out there at the moment, like all these different certifications, and, you know, LinkedIn learnings and lots of you know, obviously podcasts and webinars and all sorts. So it’s really, I think it’s actually easy to also to stay educated about the latest developments. So I think that’s really, those are probably my two key things that, you know, I would like people to take away, and then obviously, you can find me on LinkedIn, as well. So I look forward to connect with you as well. And just send me a message. And I look forward to learning more about that your priority areas and, and focus areas as well.

Tina:  I love that the you know, don’t get complacent, and stay educated. You’re You’re right. And I love that you mentioned LinkedIn learning, because I find the quality of that content quite high. It’s totally worth the premium subscription. Right? 

Hanna: Totally, totally. Yeah. And YouTube, like oh, my gosh, like some of the, you know, some of conferences is that you’re gonna get access to and actually, but there are so many free conferences even these days. So it’s really amazing, actually. 

Tina: And there’s a lot of communities who are holding in person, you know, local activities, too. And there’s, you know, hackathons and there’s all these talks. And yeah, it’s it’s quite amazing. I feel like we’re in a, almost like a renaissance age for learning. Thank you so much for joining us. And thank you. Yeah, and I hope that we can have you on again in the future and maybe catch up on some of the new things that you were working on.

Hanna: that will be fantastic. Open really good. And I look forward to listening other episodes as well. Thank you.

Tina: Tell your friends. 

Hanna: Okay I will, I will.

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