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Episode 17: Data is Philosophical: Myths and Best Practices of Data Privacy

Trends in data privacy, how they reflect broader societal trends, and the changes companies need to adopt to keep up with the rapidly evolving data privacy landscape.

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Speakers

Tina Tang

VP of Product Marketing at Privitar

Punit Bhatia

Data Privacy Consultant and Board Member at ISACA Belgium Chapter

Transcript

00:01

Intro: Welcome to InConfidence, the podcast for data ops leaders. In each episode, we asked thought leaders and futurists to break down the topics and trends concerning it and data professionals today, and to give us their take on what the data landscape will look like tomorrow. Let’s join the data conversation.

00:20

Tina: So Punit, I’d like to welcome you to InConfidence, our podcast for data ops leaders, very honored to have you today. And I thought we’d do a little icebreaker. Does that sound okay?

Punit: Yeah, the pleasure is mine. And thank you so much for having me.

Tina: All right, let’s get warmed up. What are you reading these days?

Punit: Well, I usually read a lot of books on philosophy and self help. So I’m reading the Einstein factor.

00:49

Punit: And, yeah, I mean, it’s a book about how to activate your inner intelligence. And the other one I’m reading about is inner peace. So those are the things which keeps me busy. But when you say reading it, I’m usually a listener. So I read or listen books on audible.

Tina: Excellent, I love Audible.

Punit: You do?

Tina: I do. And I also like those types of books. And in fact, the two that you mentioned, are interesting, because Einstein was like, a meditator. And he got a lot of ideas when he was in that sort of state. So I find that really fascinating, because I meditate myself and I, and I remember when I started meditating, how it changed the way I experienced life, basically, it’s like opening another dimension.

01:42

Punit: It does, absolutely does. I think I started on this track in around 2015, meaning the self help the learning the philosophy, and all those aspects, its been over seven years, and I see a remarkable change in myself.

Tina: Excellent. I just, I also like self help books. So I, I tried different types, different approaches. And sometimes they really resonate, and sometimes not so much. But that’s okay.

Punit: Because I try to find out what works, what doesn’t and what doesn’t also, you don’t realize in a few years, it gives you a perspective. But which one is your favorite in self help?

Tina: I don’t know that I would have a favorite. But there have been many that have influenced my understanding of myself and of humanity, you know, and life in the universe in general. For example, when I started sort of, you know, down this path, I was reading a book by Daniel Goleman. On I think it was called Emotional intelligence or something like that.

02:49

And he’s, he was part of this group of Buddhist monks and meditators who have been looking using like Western technology to examine what happens to the mind to the body of a meditator under certain conditions. And anyway, so that was kind of a mixed with his own philosophy about life, in thinking with this sort of research based information, so that I found that really, to be fascinating and sort of opened the door for me to examine Buddhism, as a philosophy, and more deeply.

Punit: For me, I had a couple of authors who impacted me it started with Brian Tracy, the maximum achievement, the power of self confidence, and the power of clarity and even change your thinking, change your mind, or change your life. And then I moved towards Tony Robbins, and John Demartini. And then Jim Rohn, because Jim Rohn is like music to the years. And then eventually, I’ve had Joe Dispenza. And as you rightly said, that was a bit of a stretch for me, Dr. Joe Dispenza, even John Demartini. But then I attended some sessions with Tony Robbins, John Demartini. And even this guy, Brian Tracy, and maximum have profound impact on the satisfaction I had was when I had the John Demartin ‘s breakthrough experience, then it was like, I don’t need anything more.

Tina:I am not familiar with. I would love to know more about that. I think I’ll Google it.

Punit: Yeah, of course. I mean, in short, it’s basically we all have buttons in our mind, which are creating blockage, sometimes emotional, sometimes challenges relations or something, or something which we feel is blocking and he helps you break through.

Tina: I love the neuroscience

04:48

Punit: Indeed

04:51

Tina: I’m also very interested in Joe Dispenza. And what he teaches very fascinating, very powerful stuff and an

05:00

Tina: I always find it interesting because I can tie all of those approaches back to Buddhist thinking, which is, to me fascinating. I mean, I didn’t grow up being, you know, taught in any religion or philosophy for that matter. So I kind of came upon these things myself as an adult, I don’t know if that’s better or not, but it just kind of allowed me to sort of shop around.

05:25

Tina: And, you know, put together the elements for each that I like,

Punit: it makes you the person you are. So everything happens for a reason and end of the day, where you are is because of all the circumstances, all the events that happened, and in terms of sets you up for the events to happen in the future as well.

Tina: Yeah, I totally believe that. I very much believe that. Because it’s, it’s, it’s like we’re priming ourselves for a certain kind of experience. And if you only see things in a certain way, then that’s the experience we’ll have that those are the things that you’ll look for.

Punit: Yeah, indeed, it’s your thinking of your beliefs, which shaped your destiny. In fact, that’s what leads me almost now because all the philosophies when you look at it, when, from a very abstract perspective, they say more or less the same thing saying, there are certain things you should do and I fail, essentially this delete saying, you should think right, but when I said think, right, that means you need to envisage what you want to be so called column the intention, be clear on that, then you need to visualize how will it be, and that’s where they talk about the emotion, and then feel it basically, that you have it on you will be the that’s the thinking part. And then it’s about the believing part that what you imagine is possible, will happen. And that’s the hard part. Of course, the first part is not easy, either. And then if you think and believe, then you start acting in coherence or in harmony with what you’re expecting, rather than in disharmony or against, and as you expect, then leave it and be ready to receive. So essentially, that’s what secrets is that what Joe Dispenza says that when John Demartini says Tony Robbins says everyone says the same thing. Of course, everyone has a different way of means of saying things.

Tina: Yeah, it’s quite quantum thinking. Right?

07:18

Punit: Yeah, there are various names, quantum thinking, meditative thinking, thinking from the higher self, thinking from your inner self finding inner peace, or the secret, as they call it, it’s all the same thing. End of the day, it’s about finding peace, and being at ease with yourself and allowing yourself to have experiences, which you normally won’t have.

Tina: Exactly, yeah. Now, the hard part is when other people

07:47

Tina: And bring bring different energy to the situations like, oh, I can no longer hide in my cave. Now I have to operate this model in the real world.

Punit: Yeah, that’s where the Think and Grow Rich formula for Napoleon Hills formula for brains working together, or the mastermind comes in. If you have two minds, which are thinking in harmony, you have magic. And if you have two brains thinking opposite, then you have chao

08:13

Tina: Right? Or, if you can open yourself to that way of thinking, Could it bring better understanding? Punit: That’s true, but the thing is, do you want to think like that, because sometimes, you know, someone has a negative energy, or someone has the

08:32

Punit: aspect of which you don’t want to be. So there you are trying to disassociate with that. And then the communication or the conversation or the Connect doesn’t happen.

08:46

Tina. Yeah. It’s possible that yeah, sometimes it’s, there’s not the opportunity, for whatever reason, to have understanding, sometimes things just, you just cannot meet. Or see if, you know, at least you and sometimes you can’t even respect a different perspective, because it’s so toxic, caustic, or dangerous, or you know, or wrong anyway, let’s not go down that rabbit hole.

09:15

Tina: Do you watch anything? Do you have any episodic binge practices that we should be aware of?

09:23

Punit: Don’t call like that.

09:26

Punit: I’m a simple person. And I like to look at things in a simple manner. And of course, I understand complexity. And I tried to simplify that complexity because when you go to these books, the whole or any other philosophy that challenges people try to imbibe or understand or follow the philosophy Well, that’s not the way you are you have to look at and understand philosophy and then see what works for you. So I have my philosophy in the sense I call it the think believe act as I was explaining, to think believe

10:00

Punit: And, of course, there are some steps and maybe in some time in future, I will write a book thing, believe act. And then I also have the philosophy of ABC of for joy of life, because we are always told this, A for apple, B for boy C for cat. But essentially, if you are told a for action, before belief, C for courage, and so on, we would have very different meaning, because those are the qualities, those are the feelings, things with which you need to live. So, I have created my own ABC. And I like to live with that, of course, 26 alphabets are not enough they are what much more skills or behaviors that you need to have, that still serves me as the guiding point in how to have joy in life. I love that. And I think that

10:46

Tina: I’ve learned that, if there’s any thing that I learned in the last three years, it’s that being very intentional about experiencing and bringing joy into your life is critical. To your overall health. It’s not just a nice to have it’s a no, actually, I have to have this, I need to have this. It’s as important as air or food. Punit: Exactly. I think the number one priority for anyone has to be healthy. Because if you’re healthy you are and if you are, then the rest follows going for it.

11:23

Tina: Do you watch TV or Netflix or anything like that?

11:27

Punit: That’s a good question. Not too much. But I have a few things which I watch once in a while. It’s not like a regular habit. I mean, I watched the crown on Netflix. So good. Yeah, I watched the secret on Netflix, I watched the Tony Robbins, I’m not your guru. I have usually used TV to watch when an important tennis match is playing meaning historical, like Roger Federer, Nadal, or Djokovic.

11:55

Punit: So then I would make effort to play watch. Those are the moments in which I use it. And then there are some Meterological series, maybe not on Netflix yet. But there are some and I watch them to understand, because all these things again, going back teach about philosophy way of living and everything. So even from ground I was trying to extract, what is the message? How do you live? What did she learn? What did he learn? Or where did they struggle, all the struggles are same as us. So there’s not much difference the kind of life you live. And if you’ve been through the power versus force, it talks about the level of consciousness, and it talks about the queen in the very high spirit. So that’s what I was curious. And that’s why I watch that. Yes, I do watch, then I’m a human being. So I do need sense of entertainment.

12:52

Tina: I love to be entertained. And I didn’t watch that much before locked down. But now I have a few different threads. And I really like Ozark even though it felt like I was sweating after each episode because it’s so stressful to watch.

13:13

Tina: No matter what I’m always doing better than them.

13:19

Punit: That’s good.

13:23

Tina: Yeah. Also, I liked. There’s this show called the morning show. It’s on Apple TV. Plus, I don’t know if you have it where you are. But it was it was very interesting. It was about a network TV show, and just kind of like the interplay of the characters, and there’s this big scandal. And you know, how do people react to that scandal. And it’s set in, like current day, so they even had a season where they were going through the pandemic, and, you know, anyway, was, it was pretty interesting, because it used a lot of current controversies, a lot of themes from modern day that, you know, are still being discussed and weighed and debated. So, I really liked that one, too.

Punit: But interesting, though, my philosophy is, I try to stay away from news or sensationalization. Because that takes a lot of energy away. So I don’t watch news. Maybe I’ll go on internet. For news perspective, one or two minutes a day, but oh, yeah, just the headline. That’s the level.

Tina: I agree. I don’t watch the news only read the news. But this was a fictional show. No, no, that’s fictional. Yeah, that’s the only way I could tolerate it. Because real life was just…I had to control the sources. You know, you have to get your news from probably 20 Different sources in order to have any kind of perspective. Do you have a favorite snack food?

15:00

Punit: No lots of them, lots of them. And many of them I try to avoid.Favorite means it’s tasty and tasty means it’s usually not healthy. So.So anything that’s deep fried in Indian sense, or in Asians and I really liked it, but I try tomoderate or minimize or at least avoid also. So try to avoid and avoid

saying minimize

15:35

Tina: saved for special occasions.

Punit: Yeah, of course it is also something I like. But I mean, at a certain stage, you have to make a choice about how you live and what you eat. So, about four or five years ago, I made a choice. And I lost some seven kilos of which now I gained two or three back and I’m now going to shed again, good for you. So if you’re in that journey, yes, I have a lot of favorite foods, but I’m trying to find new favorites, like protein shakes.

16:08

Tina: I’ve been on that journey a couple of different times in my life, like, you know, after I gave birth, for instance, but even during this pandemic, I had kind of a convergence of strange health conditions. And I gained, I guess, maybe seven kilos. And I’ve lost most of it. So like you the cheat day stuff is like, you know, how bad do you want it?

16:39

Punit: Exactly

Tina: how much is that worth to you. But I do think that, you know, what it’s taught me is choosing when and understanding the consequences, and enjoying it without guilting about it, you know what I mean? Like, oh, I have, you know, a day or time a window in which I can do these, I can have these things. But even during those windows, it’s like, yeah, not worth it. I can have joy in simple things that aren’t going to hurt my health, just as readily as I would enjoy that french fry. Right?

17:22

Punit: Exactly. If you can get yourself in that state of balance. When you’re making right choices, conscious choices, that also aids in your thinking in your work in your family life, in your relationships, and everything. And if you’re not, then that bitterness that suffocation creeps into everything else in life, either it’s everything clean, or it’s everything, little which shadow a little bit better, a little bit sad. So it’s important to filter out in everything and in case you do eat something, then be kind right to yourself, right? Give yourself that liberty and freedom to say, Okay, today, I was a bit more human than what I want to be. And that’s fine. I was not robotic I ate. It’s okay, be kind, it’s fine, right? Once in a while. And if you have that, then the body is also able to adjust and not gain the weight.

Tina: Right. And I think that, like you said that the way we treat ourselves is a paradigm or a microcosm of how we treat others also and how we do things. How do we, you know, win? How do we lead? Right? How do we manage people? How do we manage our families, our family relationships? How do we manage data? What’s this like?

18:46

Punit: Absolutely. Everything. I mean, as Tony Robbins says, Everything impacts everything. And it’s absolutely true. You may think I’m watching us sad or depressing video, and I’m being this and that. And you think it doesn’t impact me in your subconscious, it does impact you, and it will come back or haunt you or have an impact on you in some other way. So you really need to choose what you’re seeing what you’re hearing what you’re watching, or what you’re reading, listening as well.

Tina: I 100% agree with you. I can’t watch certain things, I won’t watch certain things because I know how it affects me energetically. So it’s not not nearly as entertaining entertaining to me when I have that kind of visceral, you know, negative reaction or makes makes me uncomfortable.

19:39

Tina: Speaking of we’re talking about, you know, respect, right, respect for ourselves, Respect for others, respect for how we conduct business. Like Tony, your quote from Tony Robbins, who’s a great coach, great motivator. And I feel like this is not off topic from privacy, I feel like data privacy is one of those things that is reflective of society. How we treat data, especially other people’s data is almost philosophical. And so I wanted to ask you, first of all, what are some of the trends that you’re seeing? And how does this reflect on society at large?

Punit: Well, I mean, as you rightly said, it’s about a philosophy. It’s like, when you share something in with your friend, you expect that to stay with the front Not To Be Announced to public. Same way, when you give your data to a company saying, Here’s my name, email, credit card number, and so on, you’re giving them for a purpose, and you expect them to use it for that purpose not to share or announce it to others. So somehow, we are in the digital world. And what happens is that what you share gets stored digitally rather than in a notebook. And that digital is easier to access. And that’s a new way of living, new way of working. And we don’t know the rules of that game. Because imagine, you’re in a shop, if you go to a shop, the shopkeeper observes you, he takes your credit card, and you are very comfortable, because that’s what he will do. Or you will give cash and your cash stays there. But now in the modern world, you go to a website, you’re okay, the website watches you, but you’re not okay. Just like in a physical store, you would not be okay. You go there. And he says, The guy says that lady came, she did this. And I think that’s a behavior element, I will give it to you, you give it to the next shop and the next shop. And then the whole street knows about you, you don’t expect that same way with the website. The first website, you go, you mean there on purpose on choice, and you did what you did. But you don’t expect that to be told to the next website, you went after five minutes? And the next one and the next one? If you don’t expect that in a shop mode? Why would you expect that in a website mode. And that’s where I’m seeing the trend, that this cookies as we call it. The other sharing of data, people are starting to get active and they are now calling some technical terms first party, second party and third party that’s exactly what it is. If I’m going to your shop, I want you to have the data not to share it with someone else. That’s the first party. Third party is not only not only share it in the street, the shopping street, but you say hey, I have this data about this lady, and I have some information, I will share it with you would you be giving me money, and that’s the third party are selling off data, there is a trend, wherein they’re trying to say that we want to limit it. And in my view, we are in what we were in with Rosa Parker, in 1950s, or 60s, when we were saying there’s differentiation based on skin and everything and color and all that, that what is happening with data, people right now do not understand how to manage or hold data, and what to respect, and what not. So companies are a little bit on playing around and testing out the boundaries, we are in that journey. And with the GDPR and the CCPA. And the new laws, I think that journey is being facilitated, maybe they’re going a bit too right or to left. And the truth is in the middle, but where we are is not the place to be, what place we want to be. That’s the shift we are seeing. And that’s the evolution I’m seeing. So evolution around new laws, evolution around more awareness, were even saying why do I see so many cookie banners? Why do and then who has my data? And where is it? So those few trends are going on? Loss perspective, individual awareness perspective and what we are putting in on the website. And of course, some of us are more liberal and some of us are less liberal. But that’s a personal choice again, because let’s say you ask someone, what’s your name, they would happily share it. You say, what’s your partner’s name? Some will not be comfortable. And then you ask, Which bank Do you bank with? It gets even more gray. Now what now change the scenario, you’re talking to your father or the mother. And all those questions are irrelevant, or your friend, a stranger, those are not relevant. So context also matters. And that’s what people are learning how to share and how not to share because some of the teenagers when I meet them, they say, alright, so it’s a fan, nothing about privacy. I said give me your bank account number and the password. I they say no, but That’s private. And I said that’s what I mean. The definition of what is private is different for different people. But don’t say privacy is not needed.

Tina: Well said. Yeah. So what are the changes that companies do you think we’ll have to make? You know, given the rise of all of these different regulations, you know, around the world, I mean, literally cropping up in different countries all constantly and even the existing laws are changing.

25:00

Tina: And then the norms within each company or even industries, sort of add another layer of sophistication or complexity to the situation is, you know, what, how are companies needing to think and needing to respond to get ready? Because, you know, like Gartner said that I think by next year, they expect 70% of the world’s population to be impacted by some type of data compliance regulation. 

Punit: Exactly. And I think there are two choices which companies have one is a compliance focused saying, this is a law, we want to comply, what do we have to do? If you do that, especially for the global companies, you will stay busy for next 10 years and forever, you the laws would keep changing. And each law would be different, because the beauty of the world is we have jurisdictions or countries and everyone wants to pass their own law in a slightly different way. So if you want to play that game, that’s an expensive game to play as a corporate. The other option is you play based on trust, say, Okay, this is I want to win customer trust and for that privacy is important. And in that context, you say, what are the fundamental principles based on which these laws are based because these laws are usually being based on OECD principles which were approved on privacy or the or the Fair Information Privacy Practices, like we have taken GAAP in accounting, we have FIPS in privacy, or the UN Declaration of 1940s 47, or 48. I don’t remember exactly. So that one. So those are the fundamentals on which this trust of these laws are based. And that’s the intention is to create trust. And if you look at any law, per se, anywhere in the world, it’s based on a few things, a few rules for companies to follow a few rights for individuals to have, and a few means of what you can do when the data is transferred to another company at a very broad level. And that’s determined by principles. So if you take a principle based approach to win trust, and then I don’t say don’t comply with laws and don’t look at laws, but do you build in into your company structure and then say, Okay, now we are operating in this region? Is this approach sufficient? Or do we need to do a little bit more? If you do that, you have greater chances of success and greater chances of compliance. And I see, more and more companies are doing that, like, few months back Microsoft was talking about, we would offer European level data protection standard to have everywhere in the world. Why? Because they realize it, it’s practically impossible to follow hundreds of standards, which we will end up with, then there will be rationalization, then there will be countries aligning, and so on. But you don’t want to wait for that. You want to start with that. Because you as a corporate, you don’t want to invest your money into all these elements. Compliance is expensive, and you want to simplify it. Right? So just yeah, if you adhere to the highest standard, then they’re saying, that’s exactly what I say. So you look at trust you find out the principles, and then say, Where are the strictest principles at the moment, the strictest principles on in the GDPR. Take the GDPR. But not to say we’re implementing GDPR, to take the GDPR, rationalized or simplify or accommodate in your own business language, because it’s contextual, as I was saying, privacy is contextual, who you are talking to where you are talking, and then contextualize by making it a policy for your company. And then you implement that policy, which is the stricter standard, and you review this standard against each roll benchmark when you’re rolling out in that country in that region.

Tina: Right. And are there any areas where you think organizations struggle more than others? Punit: Punit: Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, one of the most challenging aspects in privacy laws is you should not keep data any longer than necessary.

29:07

Which means you should delete the data. Now, in the old world, when it was paper based, I would accumulate a set of books or billing books. And then I will say, okay, Tina got this product seven years ago, I won’t even remember because there’s a book and then I will say, there’s too many books, my cupboard on the shelf or the wardrobe or whatever the place to hold that is full, let’s destroy them, throw them off, and we’ll accumulate new data. But now in the modern world, we keep tend to keep data systems are meant for that internet is the cloud is there and accumulating more and more and now these laws come in and saying keep it only as long as necessary. So on one hand, it’s a technical challenge because systems are not built for deletion. On other hand, it’s a mindset challenge because you thought data is the new gold. Well no, the relevant data is the new gold for the relevant purpose, not everything. And that’s a mindset shift. And third, since we will simulate it so much now going back and deleting that, or even shifting that mindset is taking huge amount of effort for companies to do that. So if you have to pick one area, where the companies are really struggling, and in my view, I think it’s very difficult to find a company which is 100% compliant with this. I’m not saying there are no companies, but it’s very difficult to find one.

Tina: So we need a Marie Kondo for our data.

Punit: That’s what you’re saying, we probably need to start thinking differently. That’s the first thing. Data is there, and it has his life. As humans have life data also has life. So we need to start thinking of data lifecycle. And when we think of lifecycle client, we think this is what I’ve got, how long Why do I keep and after that, dispose it off, expired it, delete it, whatever you do it and maybe you don’t want to delete it, you come in you shop. And you may want to keep that you shopped, but not you shopped a customer shopped. customer bought this data is relevant for you, because 20 years later, you want to see trends, but you don’t want to see it was wounded or Tina, that is irrelevant in that context. You may want to know male or female, that’s the level not more than that. To think it’s a thinking shift, I would say,

Tina: Are there any myths that, you know, organizations kind of hold on to and, and therefore, you know, base certain practices on that, that you see that are detrimental to them?

Punit: I mean, when you say Nish, what do you mean?

31:50

Tina: Myths, myths, sorry, my accent,

Punit: I think I’ll link back to the deletion part first. So the myth is more data is better for us. That creates a problem. Another myth with companies who are hesitating to jump on the trust bandwagon or privacy bandwagon is they think privacy is an overhead, it’s not needed, it will go away. And then sometimes there’s also the thing like, if we start implementing the data practices in full, we would miss out on a lot of customer data, we will miss out on private data. And to give you a simple example. When you go on a website, you collect a lot of data, you ask, you start sending spam, and people don’t read it. But you are feeling I’m sending that spam to 10,000 customers, they’re not reading it. However, in reality, if you ask a keynote upon it, what do you want to receive? Do you want to receive, say to your from your bank, credit related information, car loan related information or insurance related information? They don’t know. So they’re spamming you with all three. But if they ask us, maybe I’m buying a house, and I need insurance. So I will tick that box. And you will take a car because maybe your car is nearing refresh. So now the 10,000 people to whom you’re sending email will go down to 700 or 10, 1000 or 2000. Yes, the number of people has reduced. But those are people who are really interested in that product. So you’re going doing very targeted or specific marketing rather than mass marketing. And that’s what people miss out on. So they look at the 10,000 going to 1000. But they don’t look at the hit rate, or the ratio of conversion would go up if you target right.

Tina: That’s a Yeah, that’s really a great point. It’s the value has gone up even if the volume has gone down.
Punit: Indeed, and it’s all about conversion ratios rather than the impressions.

Tina: It sure as a marketer, I wholeheartedly agree.

33:56

Tina: So we talked about some best practices, like lifecycle management of data, not letting it get cluttered. And then we also talked about using companies like Microsoft using GDPR as its highest policy standards for privacy. Are there any other best practices that you recommend?
Punits: Yes, so I mean, apart from using the strictest standard as your de facto standard you implement as well as having a data lifecycle management or governance in place. I think one of the things is your compliance or Polly’s privacy practices are as good as your front end employees or the person on the shop floor. So for that, the laws say you should train your staff and most companies what they do is they will have a general computer based training or online training 30 minutes and pass it on to everyone what is privacy, what is privacy, law and so on. That’s essential, but I think what is needed on the ground for us, every person to understand is

35:00

job specific or department specific training, because if you’re in a marketing department, you’re running campaigns, you need to understand consent, the purpose of marketing, direct marketing, subscribe, unsubscribe, opt in opt out much better than anyone else. visa vee is a procurement guy who’s transferring data doing contracts, they need to understand how to do contracts. So if you when you do general training, you’re missing out on essence. But if you’re doing marketing, specific training, procurement specific training, I charge for strict training that helps people and it’s the same for management. Management doesn’t need to understand there are X number of laws, X number of rights y number of days, and this that’s detailed for them, they need to understand what is privacy and why does it matter for the company? And what do they have to do set up a policy data lifecycle management, and job specific training, and that’s good enough for them. They don’t need to know details. So what I will say is as a best practice, which I often advise and work with my clients to provide is, it’s about a culture change, and culture starts with people. So give them jobs specific training,

Tina: that is probably the best advice I’ve heard so far this year.

36:15

Tina: You know, just speaking from a personal experience, when you receive training, and it’s not relevant to your daily life, your daily job, it’s very hard to understand why you need to pay attention to this. And I think that what you just said, is, is a very important and actionable thing that companies can do. Like you said, your policies are only as good as your people.

36:48

Punit: absolutely, and I think, when you talk about that, when we do the training with our clients, we also do scenarios, like for marketing, we say, let’s imagine you’re doing a campaign. This is the situation. That’s how you are. So what elements of privacy we’ll do so you will do a brain strong. And after that, we say, okay, these are the good points, mostly they will find it. And then we said it What about doing these three things additionally, and then the learning is much more richer than saying next next next 30 minutes private, straining, because I must do it. Do some compliance person told me and manager is getting my emails daily, and it’s only 90% compliant, we have to be 99 by the end of the week, that doesn’t help.

Tina: Fantastic. Do you have any parting wisdom that you’d like to share with our audience? Before we let you go?

Punit: I think you want me to focus on privacy, life, confidence,

Tina: all of them at the same time.

37:52

Punit: So I think I talked about my philosophy, think, believe and act. So whether it’s life, whether it’s privacy, or whether it’s anything else in life, it matters. Whatever we are doing in context of privacy or otherwise in life, think what you’re doing, why you’re doing what is the end objective, and think long term.

38:15

Punit: And second, once you’ve made that strategy, or that choice, or direction or intention, whatever you call it, go wholeheartedly with it. And don’t roll back. So when you go wholeheartedly, that is you believe in it, your staff or your inner self as an individual. It helps your confidence and then act with the confidence. And when you act with the confidence, you will have the results. I think that’s as simple as that for me.

Tina: Wonderful. Punit, I want to thank you for your time today. And what a great, it was a very pleasurable conversation with you. Thank you very much for joining us.

Punit: The pleasure was mine and I have the same feeling. It was in a very fruitful conversation and very connecting conversation. I’m amazed the way you move from general conversation to privacy and then building it and having me to stretch everything together, or string string everything together, I would say.

39:21

Outro: No matter where you are in your data journey privitar is here to help. privitar empowers organizations to leverage their data to innovate faster, while protecting the privacy of individuals at massive scale. privitar is unique in combining technology, thought leadership, and expert services to help your data operations thrive.

39:43

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